I was working as a contractor for CPL. They had been paying me later and later for months before they went bust. I'd had a meeting with one of the Directors in September 2005 (while they were under the voluntary arrangement) and he assured me that things would be ok. I'd wanted to get out of the contract but was tied in.
Fast forward to Feb and and I'd started to get really worried that Novembers invoice had only just been paid (9 weeks late) and that Decembers was outstanding. I sent lots of email to the the Director and the person in charge of payments. I got no reply other than an email from someone else asking me to complete February's timesheet. At first I refused to fill in my timesheet, but then agreed because I thought (stupidly) that i'd eventually get paid.
At this point CPL either knew or should have known that they couldn't pay me. I received no correspondance from them other than to fill in my timesheet. I believe they acted fraudulently.
Eventually (in early March) one CPL director turned up at the office with an Intervolve director to tell me what was going on . They agreed to terminate my contract, but offered me the opportunity to join Intervolve (which I politely declined). I don't think Intervolve had bought CPL yet so I find that a little strange.
Anyway, CPL owe me and Richard Phillips three months worth of invoices each.
Anyone who has any information regarding the misconduct of the directors should contact the insolvency practitioner (Begbies Traynor on Telephone
020 7398 3800)
Trevor
Click the link below to see the new game I'm developing!
Another one bites the dust?
Started by
Guest_Curious_*
, Apr 05 2005 12:16 PM
45 replies to this topic
#17
Guest_Sandra_*
Guest_Sandra_*
-
- Guests
Posted 20 June 2006 - 11:25 AM
Hi,
I'm one of the ones that got dumped on big time by CPL. (Hello Nic, remember me?). Although my most recent employment with them was 'only' 12 years, I'd worked on and off (more on than off) for CPL for 21 years. For that, I got a phone call one afternoon saying I was redundant with immediate effect... "oh and, by the way, you're not being paid for the last month or any redundancy or notice". Great.
Like many others caught up in this mess, I went from being upset to angry to scared to bitter... But, I'm now employed again in a job I'm loving - so very different to CPL. My only regret is that I stayed with CPL for so long.
As for Intervolve, well, can anyone see how they can survive? Particularly in light of recent events.
I'm one of the ones that got dumped on big time by CPL. (Hello Nic, remember me?). Although my most recent employment with them was 'only' 12 years, I'd worked on and off (more on than off) for CPL for 21 years. For that, I got a phone call one afternoon saying I was redundant with immediate effect... "oh and, by the way, you're not being paid for the last month or any redundancy or notice". Great.
Like many others caught up in this mess, I went from being upset to angry to scared to bitter... But, I'm now employed again in a job I'm loving - so very different to CPL. My only regret is that I stayed with CPL for so long.
As for Intervolve, well, can anyone see how they can survive? Particularly in light of recent events.
#18
Bob Filipiak
-
- Members
-
- 133 posts
Expert
- Gender:Male
Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:28 PM
This situation has a familiar ring.
To those who worked for this company, and were owed money for time worked; I strongly suggest that you do whatever is permissible by law to file a claim.
These people will "screw" others in the future if given a chance. WOM is an effective tool in exposing companies like this. Just be careful that you stick to the facts in the comments made. Editorializing is what will get you in trouble (slander and character defamation (LMAO - CHARACTER???)).
Bob Filipiak
To those who worked for this company, and were owed money for time worked; I strongly suggest that you do whatever is permissible by law to file a claim.
These people will "screw" others in the future if given a chance. WOM is an effective tool in exposing companies like this. Just be careful that you stick to the facts in the comments made. Editorializing is what will get you in trouble (slander and character defamation (LMAO - CHARACTER???)).
Bob Filipiak
#19
Glenn Meyers
-
- Members
-
- 221 posts
ProIV Guru
- Gender:Male
- Location:St. Louis, MO, United States
- Interests:I also raise African Gray Parrots and build hot rod automobiles.
Posted 20 June 2006 - 03:29 PM
I Chicago, I would just get Guido and the boys to break a couple of a directors kneecaps. Or perhaps slit a brakeline or two.
Checks would usually be forthcoming as they got the message.
I'm certain you lot have a group that preforms this function over there, or am I mistaken? These morons deserve nothing but the BEST!
In absence of that, It sure sounds like INTENT to commit Fraud to me.
Either way, Get the Bastards!
Checks would usually be forthcoming as they got the message.
I'm certain you lot have a group that preforms this function over there, or am I mistaken? These morons deserve nothing but the BEST!
In absence of that, It sure sounds like INTENT to commit Fraud to me.
Either way, Get the Bastards!
#20
Guest_Richard Phillips_*
Guest_Richard Phillips_*
-
- Guests
Posted 20 June 2006 - 03:45 PM
I would suggest contacting Begbies Traynor in the first instance.
Please attempt to keep all tales of woe as accurate as possible. This is probably the only point of contact for those of us afflicted and I'd not like to place bets on how long this thread will last if things start to get libellous.
Best
Rich
Please attempt to keep all tales of woe as accurate as possible. This is probably the only point of contact for those of us afflicted and I'd not like to place bets on how long this thread will last if things start to get libellous.
Best
Rich
#22
Phil
-
- Members
-
- 187 posts
Expert
- Gender:Male
Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:54 AM
If, however anyone would like to place bets, I am happy to offer these prices ;I would suggest contacting Begbies Traynor in the first instance.
Please attempt to keep all tales of woe as accurate as possible. This is probably the only point of contact for those of us afflicted and I'd not like to place bets on how long this thread will last if things start to get libellous.
Best
Rich
1 Week 5/1
1 Month evens
2 Months 8/1
3 Months 16/1
1 Year 20/1
Curious Dance 66/1
#23
Rob Donovan
-
- Admin
-
- 1,652 posts
rob@proivrc.com
- Gender:Male
- Location:Spain
Posted 21 June 2006 - 08:39 AM
Can I bet? 
Rob.
Rob.
#25
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 22 June 2006 - 06:55 AM
Intervolve viable? 3 people working in London propping up half a dozen pretending to in Wellingborough (not much change there then 
)? The only products they have they are reselling (think ebay dropshipper) which you could probably just google and buy direct.
)? The only products they have they are reselling (think ebay dropshipper) which you could probably just google and buy direct.
#26
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 01 July 2006 - 07:15 PM
I presume you have all got the same letter from the receiver that I got today. Like me I’m sure this letter has left you asking some of the following questions :
· Why are the Managing Director, his wife and daughters’ names among the list of creditors?
· Why is the Managing Directors’ wife listed as a creditor when I believe she has not worked at CPL due to illness for many months or even years?
· Why is the Managing Directors’ daughter listed as a creditor with a claim for 10K? I believe she was only an employee for 2, maybe 3 years. This claim for unpaid wages seems to incate she was employed on a salary in excess of 100K for answering the telephone.
I am not trying to make the point that any of the above is an indication of any wrongdoing. However, these are questions that I feel need to be answered either here or at the creditors meeting. Has anyone out there got any answers?
The total of former CPL employees’ compensation of 170K is to be met from a pot of just £14K, it seems morally unjustifiable for me that over a third of the available money seems to be headed to the owner of the company and his immediate family.
· Why are the Managing Director, his wife and daughters’ names among the list of creditors?
· Why is the Managing Directors’ wife listed as a creditor when I believe she has not worked at CPL due to illness for many months or even years?
· Why is the Managing Directors’ daughter listed as a creditor with a claim for 10K? I believe she was only an employee for 2, maybe 3 years. This claim for unpaid wages seems to incate she was employed on a salary in excess of 100K for answering the telephone.
I am not trying to make the point that any of the above is an indication of any wrongdoing. However, these are questions that I feel need to be answered either here or at the creditors meeting. Has anyone out there got any answers?
The total of former CPL employees’ compensation of 170K is to be met from a pot of just £14K, it seems morally unjustifiable for me that over a third of the available money seems to be headed to the owner of the company and his immediate family.
#27
Bob Filipiak
-
- Members
-
- 133 posts
Expert
- Gender:Male
Posted 02 July 2006 - 12:04 AM
Guest,
What you describe does not surprise me in the least!!! I have walked this s----y road before.
In many coutries where the taxing structure has deleterious effects on passing wealth from one generation to another, or between husband and wife; such ploys are common. Also, to insure that one does not get wiped out completely by a corporation going bust.
Considering that I live in the US, my point will reflect the effects of varied federal and state statutes. In the US, there are these basic business entities:
a sole propietorship - person operating under his/her own name, or a ficticious name; and personally responsible for the debts of the business;
a partnership, two or more individuals operating under either their own names (Jones & Smith), or a completely ficticious name (FCK consulting), where all partners are indiiiviidually and jointly responsible for the debts of the business;
a limited liability company (LLC) or partnership (LLP) - a relative new creature I am not all that familiar with. I am told that it is halfway between a corporation and a sole propietorship/partnership.
a corporation which can be either privately owned (a "C" corp, or a Subchapter "S" corporation) or publicly owned. This latter one is usually traded on a stock market. The owners of corporation own stock in that corporation. In the US, a corporation is a LEGAL entity in and of itself; separate and apart (really???) from its owners.
Unlike the others, only a corporation can shield the owner's assets from the Corporation's debts. If a corporation goes out of business, only ITS asssets can be siezed to satisfy its creditors. And YES its stockholders can be a creditor; and often they are. How you have your money tied up in the corporation will determine how much of it you will recover.
WHY??? you might ask, to insure that you get FIRST crack at any assets the corporation. As a stockholder - you are the LAST one to get anything out of a corporation that went BUST; all other creditors stand in line before you. However as a creditor, especially as a SECURED creditor (i.e. a claim against specific assets), you jump to the front of the line.
Therefore, you have as little INVESTMENT (dollars in stock ownership); as possible, and as much in SECURED LOANS (money loaned to the corporation). One other thing, under US law, interest paid on a loan of money is considered INTEREST (no different than interest paid on a savings account, or certificate of deposit), as opposed to WAGES (and wages are subject to Social Security and Medicare tax)
Lastly, under US bankruptcy laws, employees with claims for unpaid wages (to a set amount) get priority treatment, even before secured creditors.
Therefore the pecking order in a Chapter 7 (dissolution) case looks like this:
unpaid priority wages
secured creditors
general creditors
unpaid wages
stockholders
NOW, why would YOU want to be at the bottom of this list if the comapany goes bust, when a little planning, can put YOU at the top.
AND IT IS ALL LEGAL.
Bob Filipiak
What you describe does not surprise me in the least!!! I have walked this s----y road before.
In many coutries where the taxing structure has deleterious effects on passing wealth from one generation to another, or between husband and wife; such ploys are common. Also, to insure that one does not get wiped out completely by a corporation going bust.
Considering that I live in the US, my point will reflect the effects of varied federal and state statutes. In the US, there are these basic business entities:
a sole propietorship - person operating under his/her own name, or a ficticious name; and personally responsible for the debts of the business;
a partnership, two or more individuals operating under either their own names (Jones & Smith), or a completely ficticious name (FCK consulting), where all partners are indiiiviidually and jointly responsible for the debts of the business;
a limited liability company (LLC) or partnership (LLP) - a relative new creature I am not all that familiar with. I am told that it is halfway between a corporation and a sole propietorship/partnership.
a corporation which can be either privately owned (a "C" corp, or a Subchapter "S" corporation) or publicly owned. This latter one is usually traded on a stock market. The owners of corporation own stock in that corporation. In the US, a corporation is a LEGAL entity in and of itself; separate and apart (really???) from its owners.
Unlike the others, only a corporation can shield the owner's assets from the Corporation's debts. If a corporation goes out of business, only ITS asssets can be siezed to satisfy its creditors. And YES its stockholders can be a creditor; and often they are. How you have your money tied up in the corporation will determine how much of it you will recover.
WHY??? you might ask, to insure that you get FIRST crack at any assets the corporation. As a stockholder - you are the LAST one to get anything out of a corporation that went BUST; all other creditors stand in line before you. However as a creditor, especially as a SECURED creditor (i.e. a claim against specific assets), you jump to the front of the line.
Therefore, you have as little INVESTMENT (dollars in stock ownership); as possible, and as much in SECURED LOANS (money loaned to the corporation). One other thing, under US law, interest paid on a loan of money is considered INTEREST (no different than interest paid on a savings account, or certificate of deposit), as opposed to WAGES (and wages are subject to Social Security and Medicare tax)
Lastly, under US bankruptcy laws, employees with claims for unpaid wages (to a set amount) get priority treatment, even before secured creditors.
Therefore the pecking order in a Chapter 7 (dissolution) case looks like this:
unpaid priority wages
secured creditors
general creditors
unpaid wages
stockholders
NOW, why would YOU want to be at the bottom of this list if the comapany goes bust, when a little planning, can put YOU at the top.
AND IT IS ALL LEGAL.
Bob Filipiak
#28
Anthony Kelsall
-
- Members
-
- 10 posts
Member
- Gender:Male
Posted 02 July 2006 - 11:07 AM
Receiving the letter on the same day as Englands exit from the world cup!
(They probably planned that as well!)
What I would've given to meet either a director, one of his kids or Cristiano Ronaldo in the pub yesterday!
(They probably planned that as well!)
What I would've given to meet either a director, one of his kids or Cristiano Ronaldo in the pub yesterday!
#29
tclulow
-
- Members
-
- 37 posts
Member
- Gender:Male
- Location:Cambridge
Posted 03 July 2006 - 04:41 PM
From my experience of a liquidation, "unpaid priority wages" doesn't exist in UK.unpaid priority wages
secured creditors
general creditors
unpaid wages
stockholders
First will be secured creditors (banks usually)
Next the tax man (VAT & IR)
Next the general creditiors (including unpaid wages)
Last Stock holders.
The Government will pay statuatory redundancy to employees if the company isn't able to. In the case that the liquidation takes a long time, the Government pays the employees and takes over that share of the employees rights against the company. Don't expect statuatory redundancy to be very big, it will be very small.
Tony.
#30
tclulow
-
- Members
-
- 37 posts
Member
- Gender:Male
- Location:Cambridge
Posted 03 July 2006 - 04:57 PM
I should further add that in the case I was previously involved with, the Directors tried to pull a trick like this (which is perfectly legal as far as I can tell).
1) Run up big debts.
2) Liquidate the company.
3) Set up a new company and buy the IPR of valuable software from the Liquidator cheaply.
4) Arrange new contracts with the customers of the liquidated company.
5) Return to step 1.
If this turns out to be the case here, then:
To put a spanner in the works, ensure that step 3 doesn't run smoothly. Make sure the Liquidator is aware of the value of the IPR. In our case we bid for the IPR to push the price up The customers may be able to help here. You can also disrupt step 4, make sure they're aware what is going on. This strategy is really designed to work with the customers and employees at the expense of the creditors.
We were also helped by the fact that for historical reasons the bank had a charge on the Director's assets (rather than on the company) so was able to extract its money from the Directors. A certain satisfaction was gained.
Tony.
1) Run up big debts.
2) Liquidate the company.
3) Set up a new company and buy the IPR of valuable software from the Liquidator cheaply.
4) Arrange new contracts with the customers of the liquidated company.
5) Return to step 1.
If this turns out to be the case here, then:
To put a spanner in the works, ensure that step 3 doesn't run smoothly. Make sure the Liquidator is aware of the value of the IPR. In our case we bid for the IPR to push the price up The customers may be able to help here. You can also disrupt step 4, make sure they're aware what is going on. This strategy is really designed to work with the customers and employees at the expense of the creditors.
We were also helped by the fact that for historical reasons the bank had a charge on the Director's assets (rather than on the company) so was able to extract its money from the Directors. A certain satisfaction was gained.
Tony.
Reply to this topic
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
Click the link below to see the new game I'm developing!
