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#1 Mike Nicholson

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 02:44 PM

Not so much a question really but we don't have a ranting forum...

I've just started to use VIP in earnest today - i.e. actually maintaining real functions with it rather than just "playing" in order to see what it's all about. As a long time sufferer of RSI I have a major complaint with it.

It is absolutely NOT possible to navigate VIP by means of keyboard shortcuts. You can't tab to buttons, many buttons don't have hotkeys associated and even some that do aren't accessible from all points of the screen (e.g. not possible to ALT-A to save from the logic editor unless you're already at the bottom of the screen).

Now when I started teaching myself VB way back in '95 (note - almost 10 years ago!!) I had no problems with this. Everything was accessible without having to resort to the mouse. I think I'd be hard pressed to find another "professional" product out there that was not navigable via keyboard shortcuts.

So why is it that I have to risk turning myself into an arthritic cripple with claws for hands before I reach the age of 35 just to code with VIP. I honestly think that it would not be possible for me to work on a site where this was the development tool of choice - it would simply cause me too much pain in my hands, arms and shoulders.

So come on ProIV - if you actually want to force this tool on everybody you really should finish it first.

OK, rant over.

//Mike

#2 Rick Young

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 03:39 PM

We've reported (during VIP training from ProIV) many suggestions/kvetches (whichever way they be interpreted) on this topic....

#3 Mike Schoen

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 03:43 PM

You shouldnt call that a "Rant", as it is true!
I've been slowly easing into VIP as well, and the number of times that I have to reach for the mouse is a big annoyance.

I used to have wrist problems that were cured by a ergonomic keyboard and better work positioning (Yes, this is no where near what you are suffering from, merely the first few steps along the same road) but I can definitly see vip causing me problems as well - there's way too much mouse movement for a 'fast' developemnt environment.

I've actually gone back to @MOD a few times to write a quick update or three, because its faster to do it there than vip

#4 Thomas Haight

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 05:41 PM

If you ask me, and you haven't... You people are nit-picking. The ease with which you can access any part of a function from one or two screens far outweighs any faults with the interface.

PRO IV finally did something right!

#5 Rick Young

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 05:46 PM

...interesting when some of the ProIV developers agree with us......not, that I'd mention any of their names in here (w00t)


Not that the concept is bad - just the interface :)

Edited by Rick Young, 06 July 2004 - 05:47 PM.


#6 Wim Soutendijk

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 05:48 PM

I must agree to both of you, VIP is a great improvement, and I don't want to go back.
But not being able to escape out of all of the windows, or confirm them with F3, which is the normal behaviour for a pro-iv function is a real pain

#7 Rob Donovan

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 09:24 PM

I've also suggested a long time ago that they make it keyboard accessable, but they just seem to have ignored it.

And the interface still sucks...

As Mike says, it is still quicker to develop in @MOD or ProAIDE than it is in VIP.

As I am writing a GUI function editor also, I can appreciate that moving your development environment into a GUI system does slow down your movement because of the nature of GUI. But if you design your GUI interface correctly, so that it is easy to use, that should over come the problem, but VIP does not.

And VIP still can get a function into a state so that it will not edit it any more, and what do you do then??

Rob D.

#8 Guest_Pro4 Coder_*

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 10:17 PM

Hey Rob,

You've been going on about your editor for some time now... When is it going to be ready?

We would like to take a look.

#9 Rob Donovan

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 12:23 AM

Hi,

Its getting closer to completion, and I'm not too far away from making it into a public Beta Release now.

I now distribute ProIV IDE Alpha every few weeks to about 25 people, for them to look at, and give me feedback on.

Also, about once a week I update a new version over the net, that ProIV IDE will automatically detect and upgrade to.

If you (or anyone else) wish to take a look and be included in the list, then send me an email to rob@proivrc.com

Thanks,

Rob D.

#10 Mike Nicholson

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 10:19 AM

If you ask me, and you haven't... You people are nit-picking. The ease with which you can access any part of a function from one or two screens far outweighs any faults with the interface.

PRO IV finally did something right!


I'm not nit-picking, and you notice I haven't complained about the actual functionality available in VIP at all. In fact I never even mentioned it in my post. It's a vast improvement on the original version and while I can pick out faults in it I can at least find a few things in it that I like now (Sorry Rob ;-) )

Basically I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for "windows standard" accessibility in a windows product and I meant what I said that I don't think I could use it for all my development until they sort out these issues - it really does cause me considerable pain after only a short period of use.

At least they've done away with the interesting colour schemes that totally screwed with colour-blind people (also me ;-)

BTW, I've seen Rob's product and without making any comparisons on the functionality available between the 2 tools it's a far more professional looking interface and in that I _can_ navigate everywhere via the keyboard.

Cheers

Mike

#11 Glenn Meyers

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 01:56 PM

Listen, guys...its like this......
All the developement was done in America...then they found out it was cheaper to do it in the UK.
Then they found it was cheaper to do it in the Phillipines.
Then they found it was cheaper to do it in India.
Then they found it was cheaper to do it in China.
Now they have found it is cheaper to have it done by a sheepherder in Tibet.

Please, give that poor guy a break......there is only one of him!!!!
He'll get around to your fixes!!

Glenn

#12 Stuart Burton

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 03:14 PM

I finally got a chance to download Pro-IV IDE.

Makes VIP look like a school project.



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