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When was Pro-iv born ?


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#1 Phil

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 02:44 PM

Anyone know when Pro-iv was born ?

#2 Ross Bevin

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 02:49 PM

I believe pro-IV was born around 1982 to 1983 in Hawaii.

#3 Phil

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 03:13 PM

So is it possible that this guy was there ?

http://www.proivrc.c...CODE=03&MID=821

#4 Ross Bevin

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 03:20 PM

It's possible. Sushal Gar may have started development earlier than that. I started using the Microdata Reality (McDonnell Douglas) version of Pro-IV (A.L.L) in 1986. I understood that Pro-IV itself was already being used in production in 1984/85.

#5 Richard Bassett

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 04:58 PM

Origins of ProIV closer to 1975 I reckon.
I seem to remember a copyright splash somewhere (PDP-11? V1.2?) that referred to "Data Technical Analysts" or something very similar and an associated date in the '70s. Could be wrong though...
Mr Crossdale will probably be able to put us straight if he's reading this :rolleyes:
Nothing's as simple as you think

#6 Chris Pepper

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:28 PM

Ray Crossdale and Mike Matthews (then at French Kier) were the first UK Users of ProIV - they imported it directly from Sushil Garg in California. This would have been in about 1983/4 time. This was the ProIV version for DEC PDP minicomputers. It ran in about 22K memory! MDN became UK & European distributors shortly afterwards. (I was Technical Director of the ProIV subsidiary from Feb 1985).
The ALL product was launched by Microdata about 1982/83 time. This was ProIV for Pick computers (specifically the Reality variant). Two of the Microdata consultants (Jerry Lees & Frank Strelau) formed a software house called Northgate to build systems in the 'new' language. This is where I learned my stuff (along with the learned gentleman who posted the previous comments!). Ironically - this is how MDIS ended up being called Northgate... but that's a long story.

I certainly heard the Hawaii story. As well as selling the source to Microdata, Sushil also sold the source and rights for a Unix version to C.Itoh. In theory this would have prevented a Unix version of ProIV from ever being produced - apparently the fact that C.Itoh called their version of Unix something different gave enough 'wiggle' room to claim that a generic Unix version did not fall under this license!

I also heard the Sushil previously created something called NoCode which was the precursor to ProIV. DTA (Data Technical Analysts) owned the original rights.

#7 Bob Filipiak

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:32 PM

Gents,

I tend to agree with the last post,

see screen snapshot of our green screen system


04/06/04 CIE//01
C I E S Y S T E M S



(I removed the PRO-IV banner as it did not position correctly)
VERSION 4.2.7


co/div code: CIE operator id: password:


TM - PRO-IV IS A TRADEMARK OF DATA TECHNICAL ANALYSTS, INC.

#8 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:36 PM

:rolleyes: I remember the CIE systems well - the operating system was REGULUS if my memory serves me right.

#9 Bob Filipiak

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:38 PM

This PRO-IV implementation was originally supported on a CIE 680/30 (C. Itoh Systems); later migrated to a CIE 680/100, and then to a Convergent Sechnologies S/80.

The local var sold quite a few systems to small governments, and I had a hand in developing enhancements to some of the modules.

#10 Bob Filipiak

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:39 PM

Guest,

You REMEMBER correctly. Somewhere I still have the ortiginal set of floppies to REGULUS

#11 steve houghton3

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 06:23 PM

The first version of Pro-IV was written in 1976 by Sushil Garg in Hawai. I think that it was on a general automation system.

#12 Papa Lazarou

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 09:16 PM

So, nobody Googles here then? :rolleyes:
Searching for proiv turned up this page- http://users.rcn.com...any_history.htm (what's with the dots in the link?)

In the 1970's Sushil Garg, the original designer and author of PRO-IV, was working as an applications programmer in Hawaii. There he experienced the traditional problems associated with developing and running computer applications systems.

The initial funding of the design and creation of PRO-IV was from Data Technical Analysts based in Reno, Nevada who in turn licensed the technology to three main licensees: Microdata (later acquired by McDonnell Douglas), C. Itoh and Pro Computer Sciences (PCS).

The European market was developed by distributors until Pro-Lab Plc. was established in May 1985, as a sister company to PCS Inc. A head office was set up in Cambridge with regional offices in Birmingham and London. Pro-Lab Plc. held exclusive rights to market and support PRO-IV in Europe, Hong Kong and China, Middle East and South Africa, and distributors were established in the majority of these territories.

In 1987 McDonnell Douglas decided to use PRO-IV as a main development tool. To develop its portfolio of system development products, as well as safeguarding its investment in internal software, in the December of that year it purchased the PRO-IV product from Pro Computer Sciences and Pro-Lab


I have no idea what the parent site is, but it's quite an interesting page and there's some other info hidden away there too.
The closest I found to an index for it is: http://users.rcn.com...roduct_home.htm
It looks like it might be some saves of an early version of the PROIV site as it's very similar to the description at at http://www.proiv.com...about/about.xsp

Searching for Sushil Garg lead to here http://www.gdis.com/sushil.htm and another pair of dates:

Sushil Garg has been a visionary player in the technology industry since 1975. Garg founded Pro Computer Sciences (PCS) in 1982, where he created the PRO IV development language. PRO IV was the first object-oriented, fourth-generation language to bring open architecture and real-time programming to business application development. Garg sold PCS in 1987 to McDonnell Douglas Information Systems, after which he started a thriving PRO IV consulting services organization.

So there are hints that 1975 is significant in the timeline, but that PROIV was born around 1982
You're my wife now, Dave!

#13 Guest_PROIV User_*

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 04:38 AM

Interesting stuff. I've always thought PROIV has a very '70s look and feel.

> PRO IV was the first object-oriented, fourth-generation language to bring open
> architecture and real-time programming to business application development.

This raises another question: why did they remove the object-oriented feature?

:rolleyes:

#14 Joseph Bove

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 06:18 AM

PROIV User,

Object oriented is always a relative term. Based on what was around in the 70's, things like global logics and function structures certainly could have qualified as object oriented design.

Based on today's standards, the early versions of ProIV would not qualify.

But, it's not really fair to judge technology from 30 years ago with today's standards.

Regards,

Joseph

#15 Richard Bassett

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 09:16 AM

Yeah, but not THAT relative! :huh:
The 'original' object oriented language is usually taken to be Simula '67 (yes, 1967) although they didn't call it object orientation then I think. I don't think ProIV then or now could qualify as object-oriented by any objective (ho ho) criterion.

See also the bottom of this page:
http://www.spamula.n...es/2002_10.html
(especially you green-screen fans).

Incidentally , the long-lost origins of a cerain major ProIV financial application were indeed in 'NoCode' on Data General.
(No points for not even having heard of Data General - read 'The Soul of a New Machine'.)

Edited by Richard Bassett, 07 April 2004 - 09:20 AM.

Nothing's as simple as you think



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