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Doctor Who?


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#16 Guest_Julie Ryton_*

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Posted 11 May 2000 - 12:44 PM

Can I just say, as a 'ProIV Professional', that you are all sounding rather silly. The lot of you. As far as I am concerned there is a lot of very important information in this web site. But when each remark is veiled with a 'proIV are rubbish' remark. It makes your credibility as 'professionals' look suspect. I have had a lot of good help from this web site. I have had an equally if not larger amount of assistance from the ProIV help desk itself. Has anyone spoken to the new lady on the phone - Vanessa Everitt. She is not technical - but she pulls out all the stops to get an answer for you.

Come on boys. Lets be the professionals that we say we are and stop all this bickering and mud slinging. Does it take a lady to see sense ?

#17 Guest_Doctor PRO IV_*

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Posted 11 May 2000 - 01:03 PM

Hi Julie,

It is good to hear from a lady programmer.

Thank you for putting forward the voice of reason.



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#18 Ralph Gadsby

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Posted 11 May 2000 - 04:34 PM

Those of us who truely are professional do not need to hide behind pseudonyms. We are not afraid to make our voice heard and take the consequences. So come out of the closet 'buttercup banana chunks', 'Who is RobDon', et al.

The Doctor is, I suspect, an exception to the pseudonym rule. He (or possibly they) obviously works for Pro IV (see his e-mail address) and is no doubt using the subriquet to avoid being inundated with e-mailed questions.

With regard to the official Pro IV forum: I agree that it is wrong that it is within the partner exclusive area, since a lot of the questions naturally would come from contract programmers. To register as a partner a license number is required - something that contract programmers would not have.

#19 Dan Shannon

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Posted 11 May 2000 - 06:25 PM

Julie,

Personally, I think we're entitled to be a bit cynical about PRO-IV. As a contractor I've worked on several sites around the world, and NOWHERE have I come across a bunch of developers who think the language is wonderful. Invariably they're frustrated with a lack of support from PRO-IV and disappointed with the quality of new releases and patches.

After 8 years of this it gets a bit dull - and it's apparently been going on somewhat longer than my career from what I can tell.

I haven't bothered to ring PRO-IV's helpdesk in the UK in ages - I've never had a problem solved by them yet. So instead it's a forum like this that I turn to.

Perhaps (and I've said this before) PRO-IV should wake up and listen, I think most of us would be happy with a solid, stable base product than new 'features' every few months.

#20 Guest_Julie Ryton_*

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Posted 12 May 2000 - 07:45 AM

I guess I have not been around as long as you. I never have any worries about using the help desk and I have been happy with the service that I receive. I have previously been involved in application support, (for none proiv applications), and I am used to some very demanding - knowledgable users. I am also used to a lot of callers that are much less knowledgable, but equally demanding. Support is no easy job. My experience of developers (around me)is that they have a lack of tolerance for this situation. My parallel is that a clerk will have a very different demand of support to, say, a department head. I can imagine that at proiv they are having to deal with different levels of proiv expertise. Say - yours and mine. I get my answers. Sometimes immediately. Sometimes I have to wait a while. But I get my answers. On one recent occasion, some of my more technically able colleagues needed more than 'how-to' feedback. They needed more involved technical information at o/s level. Far beyond my programming abilities. The Help Desk was able to arrange a conference call with the relevant individuals within the proiv organisation. Perhaps things have changed since you last called the help desk ? Maybe its a case of if you don't ask you don't get ?

Personally I would say that a forum, such as this, is a great place to start. I am very grateful to Rob for his time and effort in running this site. There is no subsitute for experience. And their are a lot of very experienced people that write in here. But I am sure that their is much that experience cannot provide. I have no hesitation in turning to the help desk when this is the case.

#21 Malcolm Fell

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Posted 16 May 2000 - 04:17 AM

Come on you all does this really matter.
I am a contractor in Australia and this is the only site that I can get answers to ProIV questions without having to go to our resellers in Perth. Thier knowledge is not that much more that mine so I come to this formum to get answers from peolpe who have 'been there and done it'.
If I attmpted to get answers from IBM on a Cobol problem I would be waiting for a very long time.
As for the 'bitching' about ProIV well they deserve it. Issuing software that is 'buggy' and parts just dont work is reserved for the likes of Micrsoft and I do not expect normal professional organisations to follow their example. When a language you are using, like ProIV, has so many questionable areas then I would expect frustrated programmers to have a moan onto whatever forum there is available.
Finally I have been programming computer since 1968 and ProIV for the last 4 years and I dont care who is Dr Who or RobDon as long as they can answer quetsions with correct answers.

#22 Guest_anonymous_*

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Posted 16 May 2000 - 11:05 AM

I would guess that the forum is within the partner area to prevent bad publicity. After all when you proudly say to your potential customer 'yes we have an on-line forum' or 'why not check out our web site' and then it's filled with posts saying how bad PROIV is - both the company and the language - well it's not exactley good for buisness is it?

If you ask me, an independant site like this is much better all round.

#23 Joseph Serra

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Posted 23 May 2000 - 11:17 AM

I think you have raised very good and interesting points. I think this forum has turned into an excellent venue for more challenging questions. There will always be gripes, niggles, arguments and some fun too, liberally mixed in with the good advice, on a forum such as this.

Only one thing bothers me, self made claims of ProIV expertise. I do not doubt Dr ProIV's expertise and knowledge but does he/she really have a PhD? If so, where did he/she find a ropy old university the runs a doctorate course in ProIV? :)

#24 Guest_Dan Shannon's evil twin_*

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Posted 23 May 2000 - 11:45 PM

If McDonald's can have a University, why not PRO-IV? Let's all award ourselves a free PhD-inna-bun! :)

#25 Guest_XXX_*

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Posted 24 May 2000 - 03:37 PM

Mr Ray Crossdale is my guess!!!

#26 Guest_Columbo_*

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Posted 26 May 2000 - 09:48 AM

You are quite correct in your guess. Dr ProIV is none other than Ray Crossdale.

Quite frankly I feel that he should be spending more time sorting out the paying customers problems rather than frolicking around on this excellent forum. Why can't this level of support be given when you call the support helpdesk rather than having to supply 3 months worth of test cases. Its just painted an even bleaker picture of ProIV support.

#27 Joseph Serra

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Posted 26 May 2000 - 10:09 AM

Who cares who Doctor ProIV is? As long as he continues to supply good advice, what does it matter?

I feel sure that if this Dr ProIV is Ray Crosdale or any other ProIV employee, that they supply their advice in the own time and this will in no way affect the work they do for ProIV.

I also feel sure that whenever ProIV support employees read the negative remarks on this forum that they take note of the moral amongst us programmers. This undoubtedly makes them work that much harder to fix our outstanding bugs and supply a better service.

I would therefore like to see more ProIV employees participating on this forum.

#28 Lee Mulheron

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Posted 26 May 2000 - 10:16 AM

Yes, this must be true. Keep up the good work ProIV!!!

#29 Charles Welch

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Posted 23 June 2000 - 04:45 AM

Who are your resellers in Perth, Malcolm ?



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